1. Digital Grinnell Repository
  2. Poweshiek History Preservation Project
  3. PHPP Oral Histories
  4. Max Smith Interview

Max Smith Interview

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  • John Haller
    John: This is John Haller. Today I'm interviewing Max Smith. It's Tuesday April 27th of 1993. Okay, why don't why you start off by telling me a little bit about your family...uh...first of all where you were born...and um...if you had any siblings, brothers and sister and so forth...
  • Max Smith
    Max: Okay...I was born on a farm, in a farm house in Liberty Township, Marshall County, Iowa, which is about fifty miles northwest of here. Uh...same location, Marshall County as Grant Township is in Poweshiek County on...uh... April 17, 1918.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Umm... I was born on my grandfather's farm...umm...we, my parents lived a mile north on a...in an adjoining farm...and my mother was helping my grandmother with the laundry, or as we called it then, the "wash."
  • Max Smith
    Max: And uh...I apparently decided that I was, uh, going to come a little early...so uh...I was born not where I was expected to be ...uh...that was uh...in the days before...uh... babies were born in hospitals and the local doctor took care of the situation.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh really?Max: Yes...I was the first of two children...I had a brother that was born six years later.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And what was his name?Max: EugeneJohn: Eugene...Max: Yes...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And then you had another brother as well?Max: No...no...just the two of us.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh...Okay...and what were your parents' names?Max: uh...Byron, who was known as Bob Smith and my mother was Matie Belle Van Metre.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And your dad worked on the farm mostly?Max: Dad ...Dad was a farmer all his life...yes...until he was forced to uh...to uh... leave the farm because of ill health.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Hmmm ...and uh...did your... uh...did you mother help, help out mostly...uh... with the home? ...or what did she do?Max: Just...Just with the home and being as we didn't have any sisters both my brother and l...uh...helped in the...in the home...uh...as well as...uh... with the chores around the farm and the field work...it was good training for later on (laughter).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right...Rightl (laughter)...Did you get along okay with your parents now; did you have a pretty good relationship with them?Max: Had an excellent...uh ...we had a...we had a close...(pause)...a close family...um...I grew up then in the twenties and the thirties, during the depression.
  • Max Smith
    Max: The 1920's, the...uh...economy...the agricultural economy was...uh...very depressed. That was prior to the Great Depression in the '30's...and because of that we didn't have much money...and we were a pretty close-knit family.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I had...um....seven aunts and uncles and they all lived in the general area too ...and...uh ...were all farmers and so we would have great family picnics and get together celebrating birthdays and all of the holidays.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: So I had...uh ...well I only had one brother...I had a lot of cousins who I was...uh...pretty close to.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right...What would you...uh ...what was...like...a typical family meal?Max: Well a typical family meal was one that I shudder at now but...uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: For breakfast we had fried potatoes and eggs and all the things that shouldn't...you shouldn't have (laughter). Probably either bacon or ham. Noon was...was a...as we called that...that was dinner.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And that was a...a large heavy meal, too. Farm workers were hungry and...uh...that, too...we always had...uh ...meat and potatoes...all ...uh... starchy things. Of course they were supplemented with...uh...garden produce.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We didn't buy much at the store other than the staples.And then the evening meal was not dinner but supper. And it, too was a heavy meal with...uh ...meat and potatoes and gravy.That's probably one reason that my dad had a heart attack at 50.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: How old were you at the time...when he had a heart attack?Max: Well let's see... He's twenty years...was...uh... he was twenty years older than I was...so I was...I was fairly old.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right...Max: I was fairly...(indistinguishable)
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Uh...How did you get along with your brother? What...uh ...did you do a lot of activities with him? Him being six years older than...Max: Not...not...not really...uh...because we had a different set of friends...and... uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: I had graduated from high school and had gone...left home and had gone on to college and by the time he was old enough to get involved in things...(indistinguishable) ...
  • Max Smith
    Max: We really weren't close at all...now that changed later on but...uh...as when we were growing up we were both sort of a thorn in each other's side.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Uh-huh...right. Did you...uh...within your neighborhood and you school, did you...uh...have a lot of friends then? Uh...tell me about your friends and their names and (indistinguishable) ...Max: Well, it was...it was a rural school...uh...a consolidated school...
  • Max Smith
    Max: with twelve grades and I attended there at Clemons Consolidated School for the first nine years, and then because of the depressed agricultural situation my ...uh...father and an uncle who were buying a farm together lost that farm ...
  • Max Smith
    Max: gave it up and (pause) my folks moved on the farm then...where I was born...my one grandfather's farm...he attempted to...uh... help them and he ended up losing his farm and so when I was in ninth grade in high school we moved to my other grandfather's farm and I finished my last three years at the Liberty Consolidated School...
  • Max Smith
    Max: it was a rural...uh ...really a rural school it was out on the prairie it wasn't (pause)... there were a couple of trees and that was about all that we had...the closest town was five miles... it was...uh...a very small school. We had a...we had a large class...we had seven in our graduating class (laughter).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh really?Max: Yes!(laughter)John: Wow! ...that's incredible (laughter).
  • Max Smith
    Max: It was a little...it was a small brick school...and (pause) our gymnasium that we had ,had been a converted Catholic church that they no longer had any use for...so they sold it to the school district... and we uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: they moved it down and we played basketball in that church then it that church...the ceilings were quite high but they , they were tied together with rods across...so every once in a while we would shoot at a basket and hit a rod instead!!!
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh really! (laughter)...did you...uh... so you moved...you switched high schools then...or switched schools then....Max: Yes...switched schools.John: In ninth grade?Max: In ninth grade...yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: OK...Did you still keep in contact then with your older ...your old friends then from the other school?Max: Uh...pretty much....because...uh... we went to church in Clemons...and...uh ... that was where most of the Clemons kids went to church...so...yes, I ended up with two sets of...uh...of friends.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I was in...uh...well...(pause)...as a...as a youngster when I was about eight years old I started raising runt pigs. Dad would give me the pigs and um...normally they weren't going to make it otherwise...
  • Max Smith
    Max: and would put 'em in a separate pen and I ...uh...had to take care of them. Half of them were my grandfather's so we had to keep them separate and I kept...
  • Max Smith
    Max: started keeping books and at that time I opened a checking account so that I could keep record of feed and expenses and stuff...and so I ...I started out early! (laughter)
  • John Haller
    John: Wow. Yeah...yeah right! (laughter) Max|And um...then when I was twelve I ...uh ...that was the first year that I was eligible, I...uh... joined the 4H club.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And from deciding to be 4H, they'd give wheat for about 5 cents. And from that wheat we started a small ...um ... pure bread hereford. I was with that throughout high school and up and on.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. Um ...Did you go to any like county fairs with that then?Max: Went to county fairs and state fair and I had . . .had one steer that I took to Chicago, the international livestock exposition in Chicago.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow.Max: So . . .uh....yeah, it was good experience. And then I won a trip to Chicago which doesn't sound like so much now but back in 1935 (laughter)
  • Max Smith
    Max: It was an interesting experience to ... uh ...to the Four H, the national Four-H club congress in Chicago it was held at the same time as the international livestock exposition. Kids there from all over, all the states in the Union.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: That's impressive. That's really neat.Max: Oh, it was interesting.John: Does it, do you... uh ... was it like a competition then to go from like the 23rd of the state fair and then to . . .Max: Yup. Yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow. Um... how 'bout in high school or in school in general? Did you have any favorite subjects or subjects that you shied away from or....Max: We didn't have much of a choice. In fact (pause) there were no electives. We just had a set core ...um ...I think I was a fairly good student and I... I enjoyed all of it.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: How much did you have to study a night? Was there much in the way of homework?Max: We had a lot of homework . We really did. (pause) Especially in our - in our math.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. And then... uh... you graduated from high school in what year?Max: Graduated from high school in 1936. In the fall of '36. (pause)
  • Max Smith
    Max: At that time our parents still didn't have... um ...any... um... real amount of money and the fact that... that was one of the things that, one of the reasons that we were so close knit.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We didn't go anyplace. Our family's activities was... activities were centered around the 4H club. My brother also when he came along joined 4H. And we would take some vacations but uh... they were all close to home and usually ten thousand steps.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Would you stay in Iowa on your vacations?Max: Yeah, uh ... the only vacations we ever had were in Iowa except for .uh ...a couple in Minnesota to visit relatives.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Where abouts in Minnesota would you . . .would you go?Max: Uh... is in... near Man... near Mankato. But things... things were really rough when... when I say that we didn't have any money we really didn't an then the bank in Clemons closed in nineteen (pause).
  • Max Smith
    Max: Its either '30 or '35. That was before the big depression that they closed and... uh... I can remember my dad sold some hogs. There wasn't any... and received some cash for it...
  • Max Smith
    Max: there wasn't any place to put the money you couldn't deposit in the bank and he took... uh...(pause) my mother and I (my brother was too young) uh...out on the farm and showed us where he was burying it in a quart jar ...quart jar.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Cause it... if he put it out there... he wanted somebody to know where it was in case something happened to him and uh... we buried it under a rock and that was where we (laughter) kept the money.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow. Um... did it ever happen... how often... how later then did you pick it up?Max: Oh I suppose within a few months. He probably went back out and... uh... opened it up as he needed it... I would guess.
  • John Haller
    John: Right. Yeah. Um... did you notice something like your daily routines or .. um .... how much you'd have to work or study. Like any major differences between before the depression ...before it came upon the country ...and then after it or during it? I mean, how did your lifestyle change because of the depression?
  • Max Smith
    Max: (pause) Well my life's, lifestyle changed... or really didn't change all that much because we were... we were as farmers were depressed and I didn't know anything that wasn't a depressed economy in the '20's and the '30's.
  • Max Smith
    Max: So it wasn't all that much difference. Grew up... uh... without any money and without much prospects for any money and didn't have real high expectation about what life was going to hold for me.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... when I graduated from high school, we were fortunate that year because my brother and I had three 4H steers that were... uh ...quite, quite good... they were one of the top steers of Iowa City that year.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And we sold them for...um... 200 dollars a piece. While that doesn't sound like much money know it was quite a lot of money then.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And that money didn't go to us, but it went into our family checking account and kept us going, and that was one of the things when I graduated... uh... I didn't have enough money to... uh... go to a four year school.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And I went to... uh... I had a scholarship to a... uh ...business college in Chillicothe, Missouri. And uh... I attended... attended that... on practically no funds at all. They... they took a note that was signed by two of our friends for tuition, and uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: So I just had the living expenses. My room there was six dollars a month (laughter). And I was eating two meals a day at a... uh... restaurant, and that was costing 34 cents a day, 17 cents a meal.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow.Max: So uh... (laughter) I got along... (laughter) pretty well, pretty inexpensively.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Were those prices typical of the time?Max: Yes. They were typical at the time.
  • Max Smith
    Max: But... and uh... We were... some of the college kids were waiting tables at the restaurant and if we happened to eat late in the evening and... uh... they had extra pie left over, they'd slip us an extra piece of pie for that 17 cents ,too (laughter).
  • John Haller
    John: Wow. That's a bargain. (laughter). Max|Yes it was (laughter). But it... it didn't take all that much money. For entertainment ... we really didn't do anything for entertainment other than occasionally we'd go to a, a midnight show... a late movie an we'd go to a movie for 10 cents.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh. Do you have any favorite movies of the time?Max: No I guess not. I was just glad to ( laughter) have a chance to go once in a while.
  • Max Smith
    Max: That presented problems because I was living with two other fellas and one of them was... a... quite a religious fellow. And he... uh... wouldn't go to the midnight show because he wouldn't go to movies on Sunday. It was uh....(laughter)
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow. Did he refuse to go all together? Or... uh... did you ever coax him into doing that?Max: No. No, no, he was very staunch in his beliefs (laughter). Occas ... occasionally we would go with him some early in the evening but that would cost a quarter.
  • John Haller
    John: Um, so what activities of college, uh... when you went to this business college um were you going there with the intention of getting into banking? Did you know that?
  • Max Smith
    Max: No. I was just ... um... with the intention of getting some kind of employment and... uh... (pause) hopefully just being able to go on with school later on.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... in fact... this one roommate, Milton, the one who wouldn't go to the midnight shows, uh... he and I had decided... we graduated from business college in the spring of 1938...
  • Max Smith
    Max: and we had decided that we 'd work for three years and get back together then at the end of it. A total of four years school. But unfortunately that didn't work out, uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: he developed leukemia and was shortly after... a year after that... he died. And by the end of the thre years, in 1941, I had won the lucky number in the draft and was inducted in the army in April of '41.
  • Max Smith
    Max: So that delayed any plans for... uh... further education. Now, later on I did take advantage of the GI Bill and went to Iowa State University. Got my degree.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Ok. uh... in college would you go with like a typical day. Was it mostly classes and studying?Max: Uh-huh. In business college it was, it was all studying, all the... um... I didn't... uh... get involved in any extra-curricular activities.
  • Max Smith
    Max: But this... this college was set up on a six... six months class schedule. Not six months, six weeks. And you... you take the class for six weeks and you either passed it or if you flunked it, you'd take it over until you didn't flunk.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: So it was just one course at a time?Max: No... no.... We had all kinds of accounting courses and commercial law and... uh... other courses that... uh... we could....
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: So how many courses would you be taking there at one time?Max: Oh, I suppose we'd take as many as... uh... five or six...John: Wow.
  • Max Smith
    Max: ...of various accounting types of classes... it was strictly accounting... and machines... (indistinguishable). That's what I was... that's what I was doing. Uh... When I graduated from there I... uh... that was in May of '38.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I had... uh... jobs weren't very findable in '38. I had... uh... an offer of one in Des Moines, with Standard Oil at sixteen dollars a week. And after I had that offer I decided that... uh... sixteen dollars really wasn't enough for me.
  • Max Smith
    Max: So I... uh... I worked on the farm for some people until... uh... until that fall and I ended up taking a job with Rath Packing Company in Waterloo in their livestock um... (pause) ...livestock division for sixteen a week.
  • John Haller
    John: Ah, really. Max|And... (laughter) ...and that... that was... that was a um... (pause) ...now let's see, at that time I was a working a forty-eight hour week for uh... sixteen dollars.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow. Was that uh... was that considered a good salary or not?Max: It was considered a living salary, ( pause) ...but uh... we didn't have much left over to do things, so... I... uh... ended up living at the YMCA.
  • Max Smith
    Max: They...they had a resident um... YMCA in Waterloo. And there were probably about forty to forty-five single fellas living there. Forgotten what it costs (pause). We'd eat at various restaurants down there... (pause)
  • Max Smith
    Max: um... but uh... I... I paid back the note to Chillicothe Business College at uh... ten dollars a month off... off of that uh... sixteen dollars a week. I-it... it, it was soon raised to eighteen dollars but that didn't give much lee-way.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. Did you uh... enjoy working there? In... the, the town...Max: In Waterloo?John: In Waterloo?
  • Max Smith
    Max: Yes, I... I was, I was working there uh... and then uh... (pause) ...after about a year I, I started this apprentice as a... well... a hog-buyer, and, and bought hogs for them and uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: just doing that when I was... got into the service, and then went back a year after that - after, after I was in the army four years uh... plus (pause).
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh, (pause) and then... then I finished up my education as I indicated before uh... at Iowa State... with a degree in agricultural economics.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh, and then returned with them for a year, uh... with Rath Packing uh... as a hog-buyer until I decided it was time to make a change. That's when I moved to uh... Grinnell. And it was so beautiful... (indistinguishable).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: Okay.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Um, (pause) so... you got uh... drafted into the army then, uh... in 1941?Max: Yes, April of '41.
  • John Haller
    John: Okay. And, what was the... what was the draft like in ...were you ... was it expected that you would probably be selected to go in, or was it completely... um... did, did most men your age feel like they were going... they were going to have to serve in the army or?
  • Max Smith
    Max: Well, at that, at that time we were all hopeful that uh... things would blow over in Europe. And uh... we'd have a low number and wouldn't uh... wouldn't be drafted.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: But uh... those of us that uh... weren't so lucky were relying on the idea of going in for a year and then later on it was uh...extended for uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: a longer period of time and then of course uh... in, in December after Pearl Harbor it was extended until, I think it was the duration of six months or so it was uh....
  • John Haller
    John: Um... Max|...it was worth it. Yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Didn't any of your, any of your, any of your friends get drafted along with you?Max: Uh... (pause) one of, one of the a... fellows that I graduated from high school with um... was drafted at the same time.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We went from different uh... he went form uh... Marshall county and I, I went form the Waterloo draft area, but we both ended up in the thirty-forth division at camp Claiborne in Louisiana, so...
  • Max Smith
    Max: we were not in the same regiment, but we were in the same division and the same camp and camp (indistinguishable), so we saw one another every once in a while, kept in contact...
  • Max Smith
    Max: 'course, it didn't take long to get acquainted with the fellas that uh... from.. the other people from Waterloo , that uh... (pause) ...I'd never met before but uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: suddenly, we were all from that home­ town and, and so we had a... a, a closeness there that uh... kept us together for quite a long time.
  • Max Smith
    Max: One of the fellas, uh... I've lost contact with all of them except one, uh... he's a retired uh... Iowa City attorney right now, but uh... (pause) he...we've kept in contact for years.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. Uh, towards the beginning of the war um... (pause) what were your impressions of it? Uh...Max: I hated it! I hated the army, I was a... (laughter)
  • Max Smith
    Max: My mother kept all of my letters and I would, I'd just uh... write them , uh, in the last uh... well, two months (pause), and I, I had forgotten how much I really despised the, the, the, the army.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh, I didn't like the regimentation - I grew up on a farm where we were pretty free to do what ever we wanted to, uh ... uh... the only... (pause) the only limits that I'd had which were family uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: disciplines, you know, limits in, in my living, and, and uh... of course in, in, uh... at college, but I, I, I really wasn't too fond of the college administrators, either. But uh... (laughter)...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Sounds familiar.Max: Yeah. Probably human nature hasn't changed all that much. But um... I, I really disliked the army.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I had a rough time adjusting to it. (pause) In fact, I tried to uh... I was in the infantry. Maybe that was one of the reasons I couldn't see much of a future in it, but I tried to get transferred to the air force, uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: That was the Army air force, it wasn't a separate uh... (sniff) branch of the service then. Uh... didn't have any luck in that, uh... I tried to (pause) get out of the army, so as... and, and join the, the Navy.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I didn't have any luck in that, and it was uh.. I was so disgusted with it that I uh... I seriously considered flying with the paratroopers, and that would have been a fatal mistake. But that gives you an idea of, of how I disliked it.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow.Max: Uh... (pause) that pretty well changed uh... in December with uh... the, the... Pearl Harbor. Uh... then, then there was a, a sense of, of purpose out there.
  • Max Smith
    Max: At least we were there for a reason and uh... had a, had a goal. But uh... I didn't like the army's regimentation, I didn't like its disorganization, uh...(pause) I didn't like many of my officers, uh... there wasn't much of it I liked about it.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Yeah.Max: I was sort of a rebel. (laughter)John: Right.
  • John Haller
    John: [tape change]
  • John Haller
    John: Uh, when you were first enter, entered the army, um... or were drafted, you said you didn't feel much of a purpose, uh... like why you were over there. Is that correct?
  • Max Smith
    Max: Yes, now that wasn't uh... that was, that was before we went overseas, but uh...uh, and there was still a lot of feeling in the uh..., in the country that uh... uh...we should... a feeling of isolationism...
  • Max Smith
    Max: a feeling that we really had no business of being involved, uh... in retrospect looking back, uh... we should, should have been involved much more and sooner than we were.
  • Max Smith
    Max: But uh.., there wasn't that, there wasn't that feeling of uh... of uh... that, that we should, that we should really get involved in Europe's - we saw it as, as something uh... apart from us.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Is you mu--Max: We--John: Go ahead, sorry.Max: No. And then uh... (pause) we were totally unprepared as far as uh...uh... weapons were concerned.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... we went through our maneuvers in uh... in '41 in Louisiana. Uh... we didn't, we didn't have uh... tanks, we didn't have machine guns, we didn't have mortars,
  • Max Smith
    Max: uh ... uh... our, our machine guns and our mortars that we had were wooden ones we just made out of sticks. And uh... and uh... that was, that was sort of interesting because uh... on, on maneuvers uh... a,
  • Max Smith
    Max: a person would uh... instead of having tanks, somebody would have a sign on them that said "Tank", so... we said he was a tank (laughter) and uh... (more laughter).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Hehe he...Max: In fact uh... it was a, it was a great source of uh... of nicknames because there was this one fellow, um... his name was Aspen. He became Tank Aspen, because he was, he was the tank.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Hehehe....Max: Somebody tried to take him as a prisoner and he'd says, "You can'[t take me, I'm a tank!" And so...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Hehehe....Max: And another... and another fellow was uh...was nicknamed Boom Boom, and he was a little guy, but he, he was a... gun , and he'd go around shoutin' "Boom boom!, Boom boom!"
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Hehehe....Max: So, (laughter) you know, silly but that's uh... (laughter)John: Right.Max: Yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: This is all, was this all in basic training now? Or was....Max: Basic training and... and uh... later on in maneuvers, yeah.John: Right.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Yeah and, in fact we did, we did not get a lot of our equipment uh... until uh... much later when we were uh... some of it as, as late as uh... when we were in uh... Tunisia, in combat.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow. So, how long were you actually in Basic? Like from the time that you were drafted until the time that you actually uh... left for Europe? Um... how long of a time was that?Max: Well, we were drafted in uh... in April, and the unit that I was with was the thirty-fourth division was a, a National Guard unit. And that was com--
  • Max Smith
    Max: filled up then with uh... draftees form Iowa, Minnesota and Missouri. Uh... and we were in camp Claiborne in some type of training up until uh... (pause) up until uh... the end of uh... December of '41.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And then we went to Fort Dix uh... lived in tents in Fort Dix in January for a while and that was a c-cold experience. Uh... (pause) our particular unit was scheduled to go on the uh... French line or the Normandy, (pause) and it was uh... it was sabotage.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And so we stayed in Fort Dix then until uh..., sometime later in February, we went to uh... North Ireland and spent then nine months in north, in northern Ireland, transferred over, spent uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: you know, roughly a month in England getting prepared to go into north Africa and then sailed from Liverpool. .. (pause) during the invasion of north Africa.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow. So...Max: That was in January of '43. Yeah.
  • John Haller
    John: So you had quite a bit of this... I mean... how did that make you feel mentally, like if you were gonna... was it like, was there a feeling of a, you know, I mean, any day almost you would go into combat or was it pretty much that you knew you weren't going to be fighting until uh..., you know, early nineteen forty-three?
  • Max Smith
    Max: We... we uh... it was easier for me because at least we were on the move, there, there was some real reason that we were there and, and uh... and uh... our, our training was normally (indistinguishable), and in North Ireland, Northern Ireland we weren't in any danger at all.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... (pause) used to go under Belfast, there were some air-raids over, over Belfast at that time, but for the most part, north Ireland, northern Ireland was untouched.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We got into some uh... bombing in uh... when we were in England for that month, but uh... at that time uh... the German air force uh... had more uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: urgent problems I think uh... than uh... it wasn't like the Blitz in thirty-nine and forty that uh... the English had endured.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: When did uh... I, I take it you were scared, I mean, I'm just assuming that, were you, were you pretty scared going into combat down there?Max: (pause) Yes, I, I think most everybody is...
  • Max Smith
    Max: Of course, by that time, you're so hardened to it, you're so conditioned to it uh... they try to bring you to a point to where they dehumanize you to a certain extent.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Um... so... it's almost an attitude, "The hell with it. I may make it, and I may not. Uh..., you know and if, if I don't that's that's all right uh.... As, as we got into combat... uh... I um...
  • Max Smith
    Max: I used to hope that if anything happened to me, that I wasn't blinded, or lose an arm. I had a (laughter) reasoned out that I wouldn't mind losing a leg, but, you know, but if uh..., if it came to that I'd just as soon die.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: Yeah, and, and and, and you sort of... you psyche yourself up to that, that, it, it doesn't just happen over night 'cause over a period of time you work into that.
  • Max Smith
    Max: But every, everybody has their own reactions and there were all kinds of uh... some, some of the fellas that broke under the strain, were the most uh... (pause)
  • Max Smith
    Max: they, they, they, they had a front of bravado but when it came right to it, they, it, it was all.... They were trying to psyche themselves up and couldn't get it done.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: You know....
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Was this like uh... fear that ... was that like, with you from like day one when you got drafted like, "Do I wanna ' be killed?" Or was it...Max: No, I didn't even think, give it that much thought.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Really.Max: I was thinking more about how I could get out of the infantry unit (laughter) into something else that I uh... (laughter) I liked. Yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Huh.Max: No I, I never, never worried about that too much.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Was uh... was America's impression as a, as a whole, uh... like you said, like pretty much against like staying out of Europe, and... and...?Max: Uh, there there was a strong feeling as um...
  • Max Smith
    Max: Senator Wheeler, maybe you or another of the history student, students remember where he was from, but uh... he took a strong position against the war and, and against uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: Franklin Roosevelt, President Roosevelt, and he was criticized quite roundly, but he, he had an awful lot of supporters, too. And uh... the turning point really was, uh... December seventh, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... we were there in camp Claiborne the night of December seventh. We were alerted and moved out, literally moved out of the camp, and moved to uh... New Orleans area to guard the uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: Huey Long bridges uh... the uh... water plants, and up to that time, we'd go into the, into to towns, and the civilians in Louisiana were so sick and tired of seeing GI soldiers that uh...we were sort of trash in the sight of a lot of them.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Overnight, they really welcomed the soldiers because the could see that Yellow Pearl coming in form Japan and just taking over. That was exaggerated, too.
  • Max Smith
    Max: But uh... it was, it was true, uh ... my, my duty there during the three weeks that we were in New Orleans was uh... guarding the top span of the Huey Long Bridge across the Mississippi River.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Mmmhmm.Max: That uh... which is both all the mail, automobile , and, and rail uh... bridge. And people would uh... stop by and uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: Give us sandwiches, cookies, just, you know, it, it was just a complete change overnight. And then that was pretty much, I think that was uh... true pretty much for all over the country.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: Yeah, uh... suddenly we had a, we had a purpose. There was no longer a doubt as to whether we should be at war -- we were at war, and, and uh... there was a commitment to it.
  • John Haller
    John: Did FDR's popularity increase pretty much overnight, then, would you say, or at least the support of, of his comments... Max|I , I think it did, even some of my uh... most staunch Republican uh... relatives I think at that point (laughter) felt more kindly to him.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: Mmmhmm.John: What did you think of him before, I mean what were your impressions of him over-all? Like, throughout the Depression, um... the New Deal, and the war. Do you think he was a good President, or....
  • Max Smith
    Max: I -- I'm not sure I always felt that way, uh... I never voted for him, so uh... (laughter) but then I couldn't vote until uh... um... it was 1938, I, I voted for Wendel Wilkie. Uh... it was a good thing that he didn't win because he died within what, two or three years after this.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Uh huh.Max: But uh... general, generally speaking uh... it was a relatively highly regarded especially, at least, in uh... in Ireland.
  • John Haller
    John: Um... was there much of a, a... a feeling of... well, like right now, like with the '92 election there's a bunch of you know, like um... anti-incumbents versus anti-government, and uh...just pretty much of a distrust in government. Was there much of that feeling then, when the war started?
  • Max Smith
    Max: There was some -- probably not as much as there is now. Because um... Roosevelt had been elected right in, in the very depths of the, the Great Depression.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And there was a feeling that we really needed government programs to get things moving. Of course, that was one of the things that he did. He, he, he did the agricultural programs, the uh... the work programs uh... of various types.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And uh... people were appreciative of that and, and felt that it was, it was the government's rule to get involved. So uh... I don't, I don't remember what percentage of the, of the --
  • Max Smith
    Max: we had too many polls then, but uh...what percentage were in favor, supportive of it, but uh... it was a, it would be a, a large percentage that... that were supportive.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. Well, I'm kind of interested in your war experiences, to be honest with you um... uh... after being in Ireland for a while then you said...Max: Yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Uh, did you sail away from Ireland then to uh... where ...?Max: Oh we, we went first to uh... England in a, in a station area there for uh... about a month and then we went to uh, (pause) went to uh... North Africa.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We landed in Oran, Algeria. That was a, a cultural shock because uh... you know, here, here it was a different society, uh... it was French government, but uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: the Arabs and the Muslims uh... were predominant uh... with one of the extreme poverty uh... and uh... it was extremely interesting. And I think that's one of the reasons that my outlook changed, because, well it changed in, in uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: North Ireland because we were there for nine months and, and had a great experience. Of course, Ireland is a beautiful country, anyway and uh... the people treated us very well.
  • Max Smith
    Max: It was all very nice, and, and you know, we had new experiences ahead of us every day, and so it was, it was something. It took away the drudgery of being in camp uh... in uh... the United States.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: Um... our experiences in Tunisia ... I, I was with a, in a uh... rifle company at the time. Uh... uh... I had been on special duty and I had quarters and I hiked it the door with my company, which uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: At the times wasn't uh... didn't seem like it was the smartest thing that I ever did was, like, if l could have been back (laughter) a few miles it would have been better.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Turned out that it was uh... it worked out great, but um... The thirty-fourth division, we, we were green troops, we had a lot to learn, we were up against uh... German and Italian troops that were uh... much better, you know, trained.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And they had more combat experience. We hadn't any. Uh... as I said, we didn't have the best of equipment for a while but that gradually turned around and we uh... we won that uh... particular ... campaign.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... then that was in May, I, I was, I was... I guess it was about a week before that campaign, but not seriously, and then from May until September, we were in training again in Tunisia and uh... in Algeria.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And we went into uh... Italy then in September at Salerno, and uh..., at that time, I had transferred from the rifle company to a battalion -- to the battalion headquarters. Which isn't far back, but, you don't get much small arms fire on that...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: It's, it's all mortars or, or uh... or artillery. And so after having the condition, in, in the rifle company, that seemed like heaven.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right, right.Max: (laughter) And, uh..., Thanksgiving time... so, I was in Italy for a very short time.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Um... they started a, a rotation plan of rotating people back and they were taking one person from each company, being in the battalion headquarters uh... uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: I had had more combat, actual combat experience than anybody else there . And so I was fortunate, I was, I got to come back to the United States, was reassigned, went on to maneuvers again, in Louisiana with a, with a new division, the seventy-fifth division, infantry division which was made up of...
  • Max Smith
    Max: Of people like myself who served as a cadre to train other people. Uh... and it was made up of young, uh, draftees, people who had been in uh... army specialty schools and uh... air force programs that were, had been discontinued, and uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: and we, we went overseas then in uh... we left in October, spent uh... something like a month or a month and a half in Wales. Um.... great experience living in uh...,in an old castle.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh, really? Wow!Max: (laughter) Uh... then, went onto the continent and we got into combat again on uh... Christmas Eve, December 1944 in the Battle of the Bulge.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh, really?Max: Yeah, so....
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: That's really-- that must have really, well, been a downer to like come back to the U.S. and then have to go back. How was that?Max: I wasn't too excited about going back.
  • John Haller
    John: Yeah (laughter). I mean, did you know that you were going to have to go back when you initially, uh... when you re- when you came back to the U.S.? Max|Not for sure. No.
  • Max Smith
    John|Wow.Max: But uh..., some people did and some people didn't, and I, I had the honor of uh... go ahead--going again.
  • Max Smith
    John|Wow.Max: So, but it, it worked out all right. We had uh... at that, at that time I's, I was a battalion Sergeant Major, which was the top, NCO, in the uh... in the battalion, in charge of the battalion records and, and uh... (pause).
  • Max Smith
    Max: Well, we, we, we had training supplies and, and uh... intelligence so it was... and we had, we had a good group of, of, of uh... people.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... there were four of us sergeants, one who spoke German and one spoke French, and uh... we would go ahead and make arrangements for uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: as an advance party, and uh... we always saw to it that we had the best accommodations and then our officers had second best and... (laughter)
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: (laughter) Right.Max: It, it, it we-, it was a, it was a good experience. It, it was a, it was a rough experience, I don't, wouldn't want to minimize that.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... one of the, one of the fellas got all shot up, but uh... for the most part we, we weathered the storm pretty well. But in the, in the Battle of the Bulge, then, in-- this was in December and January, December of '44, January of '45, um... (pause)
  • Max Smith
    Max: The weather was, was a real problem, and uh... we were bringing new recruits in and... by the truckload ... and sending casualties back, and we had some battle, battle casualties, but for the most part they were, they were uh... casualties of , of the weather. Which was...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh, really? Max|Yeah.John: What was -- like how'd the...?Max: Tren--trench foot uh... and uh... frozen uh... hands...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow.Max: We just, we just weren't uh...we didn't, we didn't have the proper uh... uh... clothing to weather that. You know, you, you'd think that we would because we're supposed to be the best equipped...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Exactly. Right.Max: But uh... but we weren't.John: It was just a... an oversight of the Army? Or... or....Max: Just lack of supplies and probably a lack of uh... maybe it was one of, of not having the, the supplies at the right place, too.
  • John Haller
    John: Right. What was actually-- I mean, this is kind of a... you're going to think it's a silly question coming from me, but uh... I mean, I just, I can't even really visualize war... like actually being in war, I mean, what was it like? I mean, was it... I don't know....
  • Max Smith
    Max: Oh I, I think it was General Sherman in the Civil War who said that war was hell, but that, that's probably an oversimplification of it, because uh... you know there are good ru-, good parts of it.
  • Max Smith
    Max: There was the uh... uh... had some of the best friends that I ever had uh... lot of it was just boredom and drudgery uh... waiting, and then the actual...
  • Max Smith
    Max: the time that you were in combat under, under shelling uh... or under rifle fire uh... attempting to advance against an enemy that didn't seem to want you to advance. Uh... you know, so it, it's a mixture of things uh... uh... lot of it was uh... just personal discomfort uh... which was especially true in Africa (pause).
  • Max Smith
    Max: You couldn't, you couldn't keep your body clean uh... we ended up with uh... with body lice. That was, that wasn't anybody's fault, it was just a condition that uh... we, we didn't have the facilities to, to keep clean for all of it, no matter how much we tried.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: Yeah, so it, it was just a combination of a lot of things.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Was uh..., was the food okay?Max: (pause) Well there were times when the food was good.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: (laughter)Max: Of course we... (laughter). In camp Claiborne, we had a mess sergeant who could take uh... steak, and cut it up and make stew meat out of it (laughter)
  • Max Smith
    Max: And I've always said that uh..., he ended up getting his just desserts because ... Harry Olsworth was the type of fellow that he couldn't sit still back in the, in the rear echelon in the kitchen while people were fighting and the fir - the...
  • Max Smith
    Max: our first day of casualties, the first contact with the Germans in, in uh... Tunisia, he was one of the three uh... people of our company that got killed.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh, really?Max: Yeah. See he, but... but the food was, was pretty good. Some-- It just depends-- sometimes uh... that one time in, in Africa we were uh... on British rations.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And uh...,they were pretty skimpy. Uh... we, we had uh... we had nine men on our squad... and... for one uh... one uh... meal, we were giving, given uh... a few, hard tack crackers, and uh... and one can of sardines, and uh... this can about, you know, a small, flat can...
  • John Haller
    John: Right. Max|...and fortunately, there were nine sardines in that can, but the fellas almost came to blows over the size of sardines that they got, because they thought that uh... somebody else got a larger...
  • John Haller
    John: Oh... Max|...sardine than they got, so there, there, there were rough times as far as food was concerned.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I think, one of the , one of the rough, roughest times was, was their there in Tunisia. Uh... we had not had food... we were lost, almost totally surrounded by the Germans except for one uh... one way out.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And no one seemed to know where we were. We'd lost con- radio contact, with... uh... uh... the rest of our regiment. And we started, we started walking that night at six o clock, walked all night, all the next day up until midnight the next night.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Are you serious? Wow.Max: Without ... without food or water. (laughter) So, so there were times . . . yes.
  • Max Smith
    Max: On the other hand, on the other hand, sometimes the food was quite good. After it was all . .. after the Tunisian campaign, we were in a rest area along the Mediterranean and ...uh ... our food was pretty good.
  • Max Smith
    Max: The water bags that are called lister bags, uh ... they're rather porous and so you'd fill them with water and then the the evaporation keeps the water fairly cool -not cold but cool. And uh... we were near wineries so instead of water, those lister bags were filled with wine (laughter).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right (laughter).Max: We had pretty good duty then (laughter).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Was there much in the way of drinking at all? Or you... it was probably pretty minimal I would guess....Max: It was pretty much of a cross- section... uh... some, some people really abused themselves for the most part.
  • John Haller
    John: When you were fighting and all that, did you... did the army do a pretty job, I mean I would, in the back of my mind I would think the army would do a good job of brainwashing you into thinking that the Germans are, all of them are enemies and none of them are worth anything at all, and you're supposed to hate these people. Did they try to do that?
  • Max Smith & John Haller
    Max: They, they attempted to do that, yes.John: And did most fall victim to that?Max: Well, its a... (pause)
  • Max Smith
    Max: it was a little difficult to believe until they start shooting at ya. And then, then when its a matter of survival and you see them um, its probably the worst people in the world.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right, did you....Max: Nothing, nothing personal against them its just that you're, you're there and uh, and uh, you're the good guys and they're the bad guys.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Did you ever come very close to contact? Did you ever speak to them at all?Max: Um, only , only prisoners.
  • Max Smith & John Haller
    Max: This, this friend of mine that I've mentioned from high school, there was, their particular battalion was overrun just the first week in Tunisia and he was taken prisoner in February of '42, February of '43, excuse me. And he spent the entire war in German prisons.John: Wow.
  • Max Smith & John Haller
    Max: And uh... in the cold areas someplace.John: Did you- [tape change]
  • Max Smith
    Max: And uh, it wasn't a very pleasant experience for him and he doesn't like to talk about it. As, as, I think that veterans come away one of, one of two types. Uh... (pause) and I guess I'm along with him.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I never... I've talked more about it here than I did with... never never told my family about our experiences. So you either put it right past you and go on, or else...
  • Max Smith
    Max: there's the type that wants to talk about it all the time and that's the greatest thing that ever happened and nothing ever, ever quite measured up to that particular wartime experience. I think there's a tendency for people to react one of those two ways.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. When victory was achieved and uh, the troops surrendered, was there no feeling that... were you over there then?Max: Yes. Yes, we, we uh... were in Belgium uh... and the Bulge there, and we went down into central France and crossed the Rhine and we were in western Germany in the Ruhr valley when the war ended. Oh, everybody was quite elated. We celebrated (laughter). Yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right, right. Then uh, you didn't take much time between, with the war ending and then getting back to the States?Max: It didn't take much time for me because uh, they had a point system an it depended on the length of service, how uh, well if you'd been wounded,
  • Max Smith
    Max: what campaigns you'd been in, and I've forgotten the details but I had about a 114 points... I think it was 102 or 103 that they started processing them and sending them home. But the fourth of July, 1945, I received my discharge that morning in Wichita Kansas and I was home that night.
  • Max Smith
    Max: So it didn't take that long. It was sort of interesting, I came back with a group of fellows that I didn't know any of them at all and we spent just a little time in France so we were shipped back. And the French people really celebrated. (laughter). One night we went to a carnival.
  • Max Smith
    Max: They'd had a black out for years and I think they had all the electricity going in the world. That place was really lit up and the carnival was just going full blast and everyone was just really, really happy and celebrating. And we experienced a little bit of the way the French people felt.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Uh uh, right. When you went back home then, were both parents still alive then?Max: Yes yes.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And it was pretty, felt good to get back home I take it?Max: It was good to get back. Spent about three months just recuperating and getting adjusted and got a job in Waterloo.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: How was that, how was that transition?Max: It wasn't difficult.John: Really, okay.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Well, the transition of going back to that job wasn't that bad. Um, I guess I had developed, come to think of it, a bit of a chip on my shoulder um, about the whole experience because about two years later my mother said to me,
  • Max Smith
    Max: one day she said, ''Ya know Max, um, you've had four years of experience, some of it was rather bad," but she said "Its time to put that behind you and got on with your life." (laughter) She was a pretty wise lady (laughter). And so I did.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And then you went back to work in Waterloo?Max: Oh, I worked in Waterloo a year after that and sort of got settled back into civilian life. And then I spent, um, three years in Iowa state getting my degree in agricultural economics.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh that, great.Max: Then went back to Waterloo again. Because at that time, in 1949, salaries weren't all that great and I had a chance to go with the Brenton Bank and Perry for 225 dollars a month.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh, could go back to Waterloo and go back to my old job because the experience that I had you know, for 325, well that extra 100 dollars a month was considerable so we went back there.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Now when you say "we went back there", who ...?Max: Well, Doloris and I, that's my wife, were married in October of '49. And so then she moved to Waterloo with me.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And where did you meet her?Max: At Iowa State.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Was she in the same program.?Max: No, she was a... she was a... uh... math major at Iowa State. Had her degree in Math.
  • John Haller
    John: And then you both went back to Waterloo? Max|We both went back to Waterloo. She, she had grown up in Moline and all of her family had worked for John Deere and she had worked for John Deere too when she was at college, off and on.
  • Max Smith
    Max: So, she got a job with John Deere in Waterloo, they had a large plant there. And, so we both worked there until the following spring when we decided that we would come here. Which probably wasn't too smart because I had turned down a job with Brenton and Perry for 225 a month and we came here for 200 dollars a month (laughter).
  • John Haller
    John: Oh, really? Max|And that's quite a drop from 325 to 200. And 200 dollars a month at that time was not enough to live on so fortunately, I had saved money when I was in the service and she had worked so, we lived off saving and she supplemented our income too with her job.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. And was it, was it Brenton Back when you moved here?Max: Yeah, its been a Brenton bank since June 16th 1930, but uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: at that time um, it was a Citizens National Bank and Carl Childs, who was then a young bank officer, was suddenly the only bank officer left, the others, or still with the bank, the others had all left because it was a sinking ship.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And he spent about six months negotiating with the Brentons to come in and insert some capital. They didn't buy anything, ... well they did buy something, they bought the note portfolio and the deposits but they had to insert capital to keep the bank going.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And on June 16th, it was opened up as the Poweshiek National Bank and the Brenton family opened the controlling interest and .. which was sort of interesting because during that time, Carl Childs would meet with Harold Brenton and Harold Brenton's uncle who was then involved in the banking business
  • Max Smith
    Max: and Bob Kinsey who was moving here from from Perry to Jefferson, he was going to manage the new bank.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And Carl Childs would take the note portfolio and all the related files at night and they would meet at the Maytag hotel in Newton. They'd work all night. Carl would bring the records back and no one in the community knew that this was going on at all.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh, really?Max: Yeah, it was( laughter) it was sort of a cloak an dagger story (laughter).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: And over a period of time then by meeting in the Maytag they worked out the details they closed the bank, the bank closed on a Saturday as the Citizens National Bank and opened up Monday morning as the Poweshiek National Bank to the surprise of everyone.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right.Max: Yeah (laughter). Well, they didn't dare let the public know that the bank was in as bad a shape as it was or they would have withdrawn all their money and had a run on the bank and probably put it out of business.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Were people upset at all when they saw this?Max: No, they were they were glad they they saw this as ... apparently, that's what I'm told anyway, they saw this as a positive move because here was someone who had enough confidence in the community and in the bank to put additional capital in to keep it going.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And what was your job in particular at that time when you moved to Grinnell? What was a...?Max: Now see this was in 1930 and we didn't move here until 20 years later in 1950. But when I came with the bank, I was an officer trainee.
  • Max Smith
    Max: For six months assistant cashier and became officer. It was working with loans and also part of the bank administration.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: And you ...Max: Later became cashier, vice president, cashier, executive, vice-president and then president.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh, you worked your way up.Max: Yeah.John: Did you really enjoy that then?Max: I enjoy banking, yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Did you uh, was that um, like getting back to ISU when you were there when you were studying agricultural economics, were you thinkin' you would someday perhaps one day get into banking?Max: Didn't, really didn't... uh... I thought probably I'd go back to Rath and continue to be a hog farmer.
  • Max Smith
    Max: That's probably what I thought. Some area like that. The packing industry, the meat packing industry was always considered a good stable industry. In fact, my father, when he heard that I was leaving were asked to come to the bank.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Dad because of all his financial problems through the '20's and '30's, really didn't hold, uh, bankers in very high esteem. And he just though I was crazy (laughter) for leaving the stability of the packing industry to go into banking.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And then, well, you were asking about my brother earlier, uh... When I went back to school afterwards to Iowa State, my brother was just starting his senior year there, and uh... I had entered as a freshman and we roomed together for a year.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh really.Max: So then we then we really got acquainted. And uh, you know, so we became very close and we have many common friends from college days.
  • Max Smith
    Max: In fact, one group of friends still gets together at reunion once a year. There were fourteen couples of us. Uh, and then four years later, he was having some health problems and was having to make a change, he was an agricultural engineer, uh, and he ended up uh, going with the Brenton organization as a banker too.
  • Max Smith
    Max: He was the president of the bank in Indianola, so we had that common bond too. We were both on the Brenton board. We spent many meetings together, at least one a month and quite often more than that.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Does he lives in Indianola now?Max: He lives in Indianola now, yes.John: How far away is that?Max: Seventy miles. Just south of Des Moines about fifty miles.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Okay, uh, when did he actually become president then, was that like later on inthe '50's?Max: Oh that was in, that was in sixty-five. I'd been there fifteen years.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Now, kind of off the subject, do you have any children?Max: We have two children, yes. A son Bruce who lives in Kankakee Illinois He and his wife, Lisa have two children, Cassandra and Terrance.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh, Bruce is the sales manager an all around Jack of all trades with a small company that uh, its Shoup Manufacturing an they make replacement parts for agricultural equipment. He essentially runs the company.
  • Max Smith
    Max: The owner isn't involved in the operations of it. They publish a catalog of parts twice a year and uh, their area is Midwest the deep south all kinds of parts for various agricultural equipment.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Where does he work?Max: Kankakee, Illinois.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh then we have a daughter, Karna who lives in Urbandale. She works for an insurance company there. And her husband is a programmer. And uh, they have 1 daughter and are expecting another daughter in June.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh.Max: And she married a person with three sons so uh, they have a good sized family.
  • John Haller
    John: That's great (laughter) Um, do you , uh, I guess I wanted to ask you, the family values that you were taught when you were a child, looking, looking back in retrospect and looking at your family now, is there similarities is there like you were taught as a child that you would teach your children?
  • Max Smith
    Max: We tried to, but its difficult. As I said, our family was a very close unit. Uh, my one grandmother had died, my maternal grandmother, and my grandfather lived with us too. Uh, he was semi- in bed with Parkinson's disease.
  • Max Smith
    Max: He was a great spirit even when he had health problems but he was a great spirit, a great inspiration for all of us. Um, and he helped develop a sense of moral and ethical sense of values that uh, ...
  • Max Smith
    Max: I suppose I was about eight years old when he came to live with us and he was quite handicapped. He needed help with the bathing and all and it was that was one of my jobs as a youngster was helping him bathe an do things so we were pretty close.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And uh, he was a great inspiration. And I think that a lot of things that I have done or haven't done, well was influenced by that family group. Another thing was that with all the aunts and uncles that I had in my community and they were a supportive group too.
  • Max Smith
    Max: But they were also a deterrent to anyone who planned to raise a little hell (laughter). Because my folks would know it immediately, they had quite a network going (laughter).
  • Max Smith
    Max: And it might not even, (laughter) it might not even get to my folks because they would take care of it right on the spot, you know they were close enough with their siblings that they didn't hesitate to correct their nieces and nephews.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Yup, right.Max: So, uh, um, the work ethics, you know having, having the runt pigs taking care of the livestock doing, doing all the chores and the work on the farm was an opportunity that we tried to instill in both of our children.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Bruce had a Des Moines paper route when he was nine years old, which is a year younger than they would normally take them, but they were in desperate need. Um, for the most part he did it all on his own. He'd get up in the morning in the wintertime and get out.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I felt kinda' (pause) kind of bad about that sometimes, but uh, just a little bit guilty, but uh, we were building character (laughter). And uh, unfortunately he has a work ethic,
  • Max Smith
    Max: well both of the kids do, that uh, work comes number one and enjoyment and entertainment comes pretty far down the line. So I think maybe there was overkill there. I think I probably overdid it.
  • Max Smith
    Max: That, that we tried to maintain reasonably good moral and ethic uh, level too. Uh, ... but the family closeness, of course, you can't do it today because their family is 300 miles from here, our daughter is seventy miles.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We don't see the grandchildren very often, so we cant be the influence on our grandchildren that my grandparent were. Its just a changing of family structure and uh, so your values do change over a period of time.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Out of necessity almost.Max: Yeah. It's no one's fault its just the way it's, it's gone. And maybe that's not all bad either. Sometimes there can be too much family, uh, influence.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I had a cousin who had a father who ...uh... he was inclined to drink a little too much and uh... his leaving home and getting away and living in another section of the country was an opportunity for him to get away from that influence and the effect it had on his life. So sometimes you can have too much family influence.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: (mumble mumble).Max: Pardon?John: Well when it inhibits what you want to do then um... when your family almost tells you how to run your life (mumble mumble)
  • Max Smith & John Haller
    Max: Yeah.John: Um, did you, but you felt you had a pretty good balance going? You yourself?Max: Reasonably, reasonably, yes.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: How did religion ... has religion played a big part in your life? With your childhood and then going through the war and uh up till now?Max: Yes I uh ... I would consider myself a religious person. My uh... mother and grandfather were always in church.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We were always in church. My father was not a uh... a church person - extremely ethical but not religious in that sense. Um... (pause) ...I didn't lose any of that during the war.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh, they say there were no atheists in foxholes, I don't believe that. I knew a few, uh... so other than the concern for the moment, I don't uh... I don't think that had a lot of effect on a lot of people.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh, certainly it made me think more of life and death and ... so my religious training and background I think... uh... did influence me and probably strengthened to some extent.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Um... I had a strong church relationship in Waterloo. And then when I went to Iowa State I became involved in the campus YMCA there.
  • Max Smith
    Max: It was... uh... on the interfaith council on the campus that... uh,...those two representatives from the various religious organizations... uh... and I represented the YMCA on that.
  • Max Smith
    Max: At that time I was faith at a week celebration. There was religion and life week... a little more than that because we'd bring speakers in throughout the year.
  • Max Smith
    Max: This one week we would bring a keynote speaker in and it was a bit a bit unusual for a state institution. I headed that religion my final year as chairman of that. I've always been involved in church here, sometimes more and sometimes less.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Where do you go to church here?Max: Methodist church in Grinnell. I spent about ten years as the lay speaker at one time.
  • Max Smith
    Max: The time the Methodist church really had a shortage of ministers and uh, so there was a need for people to fill in when ministers would be gone. I spent about ten years doing that.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Didn't, guess I didn't feel any great call to do it, it was just to fill a need. Right now I'm not particularly active in church other than regular in attendance.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: When you mentioned the war and religion. Before you had mentioned how you were almost desensitized to it at the time, dehumanized. Um, did religion help you to keep perspective on this?Max: I think it did.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I think that the people that had some type of religious background for the most part maybe we... (laughter). But I think it helped those who had some kind of a religious background uh, it helps look better than those that... I can't... ( laughter) ... (pause).
  • Max Smith
    Max: I think of uh... one of the days of combat in Tunisia, when our particular company was not advancing but we were in a holding position on a hill.
  • Max Smith
    Max: It was alone, very rocky, we couldn't, really couldn't dig down and we would kind of have to make foxholes by taking rocks and lining them up around and then getting down to the crevice.
  • Max Smith
    Max: A couple fellas in swab were sharing the same foxhole. One was from Ohio and one was from Chicago . Both were [tape change]
  • Max Smith
    Max: Our, our battalion chaplain was, was a catholic uh, chaplain who originated from the Dubuque, Iowa area. Uh, father Hoffman, Albert J. Hoffman. He's now dead.
  • Max Smith
    Max: But uh, he ended up as the uh... most decorated chaplain in the World War II, and he was, he was really a great guy, I'll tell you. He... he was uh... a very unusual person. And we were on this hill...
  • Max Smith
    Max: And we were just getting shelled unmercifully, and the shi-- the uh... artillery, the rounds of artillery that were coming in, they'd hit the, the sides of our foxholes or near them, and it, it would just shatter the rock and they'd...
  • Max Smith
    Max: so, we not only had the artillery but we had the flying rock, too. And there was a lull in it, and coming up (cough) around the bend was chaplain Hoffman (cough). He was just out, scouting the area.
  • John Haller
    John: (laughter) Max|(laughter) He was that kind of a guy, and he stopped and visited with us for a while and then went on.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And these two fellas, one of 'em said, "You know, I'm a Catholic, and I haven't been attending Mass." But he said, "If I ever get out of here..." (laughter) He said, he said, 'Tm going to be at Mass every Sunday!" (laughter).
  • Max Smith
    Max: I don't know whether he was or wasn't, but uh... (laughter) but that, that was a case where uh... where the chaplain set a good example. But uh... Father Hoffman, he, he, he couldn't tell a Catholic from a Protestant.
  • Max Smith
    Max: A number of times, uh... it was during Easter time, and we would have joint uh... services because there wasn't time, but before we'd start off in a, in a battle, why he would uh... hold a, hold a joint service for Catholics and Protestants.
  • Max Smith
    Max: He was a great guy. Um, he ended up losing a leg. He was uh... trying to recover uh... wounded people from a mine field, and he was blown up himself, then.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow.Max: I kept in contact with him and he never lost his spirit, he was...(laughter).
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. That's pretty neat. Um, what, what do you, what do you uh... and your wife do now? I mean, first of all let me ask, when did you retire from the bank?Max: I retired ten years ago this spring.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Okay. And uh, your wife, during the time that you were at this bank, she... she was a teacher? Is that correct?Max: Uh... she uh... she worked at several different places (pause).
  • Max Smith
    Max: She started out working at the uh... Grinnell Shoe Company, which was in an operation that's now defunct, it was a, it was a Lannom company, and they, they made uh... made various type of shoes.
  • Max Smith
    Max: She worked in the office there, and then moved over to Poweshiek County Mutual Insurance, worked there for several years. Um... dropped out uh... all the kids were (cough) growing up.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... then went back to uh... she worked at, as, as a travel agent for um... well, let's see... I can't remember if she was there whether she was at the um... (pause) at the bleacher factory out south of town which is now defunct.
  • Max Smith
    Max: She worked there for a while and then as a travel agent for about six years. And uh.., so she's got a number of things. Um... she did not get a uh... teacher's certificate with her math degree.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh.Max: And... if you don't have a... a teacher's certificate, and a um... you know, for a community the size of Grinnell, a math degree isn't all that marketable.
  • Max Smith
    Max: So she decided that she would uh... go back to school and uh... get her certificate, and uh... which she did over here (cough). She had a, a minor in English, and uh... she found out that she, she'd probably have to take some math classes uh... again, over, in order to refresh herself.
  • Max Smith
    Max: So she decided that, better um... (pause) her um... major here in English, and she did. Uh then, then she started uh... to practice teaching, she got everything all ready ... I don't why they don't uh... give you the practice teaching first.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Uh... she was teaching junior high kids, and uh...... after about a month of that she suddenly decided that she really didn't want to teach (laughter). Anyway, she did, she did get her certificate and it was...
  • Max Smith
    Max: it was sort of an insurance uh... uh... for us, in case something happened to me, why she could have taught, but uh..., she had these other jobs along the line.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Right. She seems kind of a, person who person of many trades as well it seems like.Max: Yeah, she really enjoyed uh... uh... being a travel agent. Because of that, I guess, we took our first trip up to England in '72, so... but that was just a short trip. (cough)
  • Max Smith
    Max: And... we decided then that uh... there were people on that trip that should have gone considerably earlier -- because they were so old they-- they had a good time but they, they weren't able to take advantage of everything.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And uh... we decided that uh... we were, even though we couldn't afford it uh... we were going to uh... do some traveling while we were younger, and uh... so we did, and started. She, she was interested in travel and this and that and she enjoyed the travel, travel agency.
  • John Haller
    John: Uh... at you, at your point now in your life, do you travel a lot or is there....? Max|We have not done much in the last five years, but um... up until that time, we made quite-- I guess, three trips to Great Britain, (pause)
  • Max Smith
    Max: and Ireland. Uh... Doloris's family was-- she's a third-generation Swede, so... we visited uh... them in Sweden and then Norway and then Denmark (cough). And uh... one thing that we enjoyed doing was renting an, an apartment uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: and just stayed in one place for three weeks and we, we did that and uh... Austria, yeah, then again later, and uh... Switzerland, we spent time in, in Italy, Germany uh... Morocco, New Zealand, Hawaii.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Wow.Max: So we, we, we've done some traveling uh... but we have to get back into the (laughter) into it again. Uh... we have a, have a friend uh... she was a special student uh... from Finland.
  • Max Smith
    Max: Was here just on a Rotary scholarship for one year. And uh, we've maintained uh... close contact with her. And we want to visit her. And then the uh... the lady who... the Russian lady form St. Petersburg who was here uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: the fall semester, Olga... I have a rough time with the names... Uh... Deloris got uh... very well-acquainted with her, and uh.. we'd like to visit her in St. Petersburg, too, so... I, I'm pushing for a trip like that this fall.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Oh, really?Max: Yeah.John: That would be a lot of fun, I think.Max: Yeah.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Especially in light of everything you're doing now.Max: Uh-huh.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Um.. I guess to... I guess to wrap it all up I'd, I'd like to hear, I mean, you've had a very interesting life and um... really 1could, I could speak for hours, I don't know if you'd like to speak for hours or not, but I think...Max: No, I would have made a good New Englander because (pause) I usually say just, "Yup" , "Nope."
  • John Haller
    John: (laughter) I, I'm curious what, what like, in light of everything, like all your experiences, now looking back at your life, first of all, what you regret doing or what you were glad you did, second of all, if you have like any, um... advice or your philosophy of life, pretty much (pause) Easy question. (laughter).
  • Max Smith
    Max: Such an easy question. Do we have an hour left? (laughter) I really don't have any regrets about anything that I did, um... there were some things that I could have taken advantage of, possibly, that I didn't.
  • Max Smith
    Max: There were some things that I could have uh... done a better job of, than I did. But uh... I don't sit around uh... feeling bad about anything. And, and I, I think part of that is because of the relationship with my family and all. I don't have any regrets that uh...
  • Max Smith
    Max: things were left undone and they died and there were things that I should have done or said uh... there probably were but uh... maybe I'm just so insensitive that I'm not...(laughter). But uh... you know, I, I, I just feel pretty good about uh... about life in general.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And I, I, I think it's important that uh... that we enjoy every day, and, and make the most of it. Uh... try to leave the, the world a, a better place, uh... than we found it. Uh... sometimes that's not easy, but uh... at least strive to do that.
  • Max Smith
    Max: We haven't talked about community service uh..., that I've been, been involved in--well, both of us have been involved in, since we moved here in nineteen fifty. And we've just run the, the gamut on that, working, working for new schools, in, in the nineteen fifties and uh... working for this last school bond issue.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I guess I'm old enough where I should think about uh... being conservative and voting against community progress, but uh... I, I, I just think it's important that everybody finds something that they're, that they enjoy doing, and then do it to the best of their uh... ability.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And I don't care what it is, that's what I used to talk to both of our children about. I... didn't make any difference to me what they did, but... I just wanted then to take advantage of, of all the opportunities that were available, and find something, uh... that they liked to do and then, and then do it.
  • Max Smith
    Max: And um... I guess that's, that's, that's the reason I made the, the uh... change from being a hog-buyer to a banker. Uh... I didn't feel that that life was uh...I, I couldn't see my future in it.
  • Max Smith
    Max: I enjoyed it at the time, I had a lot of great friends there, but uh... it wasn't as fulfilling as I had, gone the road as I had hoped that it would be, or that, that I wanted it to be, and uh... the one thing about banking is that uh... a lot of people don't see it that way but it's a... it was a way of helping people. And uh...
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: That's important.Max: It is important. And I, I think it's important for each generation to uh... to, to remember that, and respond that way, 'cause we... we, we all have different talents and we have to do (pause) do things in our, in our own way.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Great. Anything else you want to add at all?Max: No, I guess. Not really.
  • John Haller & Max Smith
    John: Okay, well, thanks a lot.Max: It's been, (laughter) it's been pleasant.John: Very interesting. (laughter) Thanks.
Max Smith was born in 1918 and raised on the family farm in Marshall County. He graduated from Chillicothe Business College in Missouri before working as a hog buyer for the Rath Packing Company in Waterloo. In 1941 he was drafted into the U.S. Army where he served in the European and North African theatres and fought in the Battle of the Bulge. After the war he completed his bachelors degree at Iowa State University in 1949 and moved to Grinnell in 1950 where he served as President of the Poweshiek County National Bank from 1966 through 1983. He and his wife, Delores, had two children. Interview conducted as part of American Beliefs and Cultural Values, an American Studies class taught by Hanna Griff at Grinnell College in 1993.
Title Max Smith Interview
Alternative TitleAmerican Beliefs and Cultural Values
interviewee Smith, Max A. (Max Avery), 1918-2008
interviewer Haller, John D., 1973- (Class of 1995)
transcriber Haller, John D., 1973- (Class of 1995)
teacher Griff, Hanna (Class of 1981)
Index Date 1993
Date (Other) April 27, 1993
Publisher Poweshiek History Preservation Project
Provenance Drake Community Library (Grinnell, Iowa) Archives
Topic Bankers
Topic Depressions -- 1929
Topic World War (1939-1945)
Topic Farm life
Geographic Grinnell (Iowa)
Keyword Grinnell
Keyword Business
Keyword Agriculture
Keyword Family Life
Keyword 1930s
Keyword 1940s
Keyword 1950s
Related Item Poweshiek History Preservation Project
Related Item Drake Community Library (Grinnell, Iowa) Archives
Related Item Digital Grinnell
Genre interview
Extent 1 hour, 47 minutes, 24 seconds
Media Type video/mpeg
Digital Origin digitized other analog
Language English
Identifier (local) grinnell:26715
Identifier (hdl) http://hdl.handle.net/11084/26715
Access Condition Copyright to this work is held by the author(s), in accordance with United States copyright law (USC 17). Readers of this work have certain rights as defined by the law, including but not limited to fair use (17 USC 107 et seq.).
Type of Resource sound recording-nonmusical
In collections