Ellen Liebman Glatstein '79 and Ann Lion '78
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- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: Want me to start?
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinWilla: 'Kay.Ellen: Oh, ready?Willa: Mhm.Ellen: Okay...
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: (Whispered: Say who you are.)Ellen: I'm Ellen Liebman, class of 1979.Ann: And I'm Ann Lion, class of '78.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: And... when I-- When we were on campus-- I actually came to Grinnell because my brother was here, and I was very close with my brother, and my parents felt it would be a nice, safe thing to have me under my brother's care. And it was in the 70's, and, being a woman, I was much less able to be out on my own than my male brother.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: And there was a really cool vibe on campus at that time. Everybody was just honest, and nobody locked the-- their dorms, the Loggia was never locked, people's rooms were never locked, cars were never locked, and there was a sense of pride that we all had confidence that nobody would ever lose anything. And I don't remember one theft during my time on campus.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: And being in this-- that safe of an environment at that young time of life was a really great way to grow, because it-- It just-- it was a safe foundation that you-- you could just rise from.Ann: Yeah.
- Ann LionAnn: And I remember that safety being really important to me as well. I remember riding a bike, and just leaving it at McNally's, and, you know, coming back a day later and getting it.
- Ann LionAnn: And I remember going to McNally's without any money or a checkbook, and I remember the cashier saying, "Well, here, just take a counter check. You can-- You have a bank account here?" "Yes" Clerk: "Just fill it out for what you need."
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: That's right, I remember when they had those counter checks! Where anybody could just grab something and write a check.Ann: Yeah. It was very safe. It felt.. it felt so nourishing, too.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: But it was also a very intellectual place, and it was a place to be with really, really smart people and think about tough things, and form opinions... And it helped me feel better about myself, feeling like I was a peer with other smart people.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: This morning we were talking... in sort of beginning to get ready, thinking about this session, and we were talking about teachers that were really... that had pushed us intellectually, and I was remembering Beth Noble.Ellen: Ruh!Ann: In this building.
- Ann LionAnn: And I would have nightmares about how hard she was and how I was not meeting her expectations, and I-- but I stuck with it. I was one of four Spanish majors that year. We all had worked very, very hard to make her pleased with us.
- Ann LionAnn: And by the fourth year, I finally understood what it was she was trying to get me to do, and I was telling Ellen and Ron earlier today that, of all the skills that I learned at Grinnell, this-- the ability to be analytical and ask questions, I got from Beth Noble.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: Y'know, I also think we had resources here that weren't available a lot of other places. My brother was big into science and he was really impressed that there was an electron microscope, and there was only, I think, five in the country at that time, and that was really impressive.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: And we also had a chance to have hands-on experience running a radio show! And that was a great learning experience too, having a regular show and coming up with programming week after week, and all that kinda thing.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: So--Ann: And also, the sorts of people we were with. I mean, you-- Ellen and I have been life-long friends because of Grinnell. And I can't imagine life without you.Ellen: Me neither. Me neither.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: You know, we were also talking yesterday about how gorgeous the trees are on campus, and it feels like the same campus. I left because all the same trees are there, and we were really admiring how well people take care of the trees. And they really must know a lot in order to be able to, you know, groom them and make them so beautiful year after year.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: But, you know, after you leave a secluded place like this and this little bubble, and there's all this big thinking and and all this safety and all this intellect, and then you go out in the real world and to the chaos, and... you know, it stays and experience in your heart because you'll never have something like that again.
- Ann LionAnn: So, both of us have children now, and it's, as we go through this life outside of the bubble, the Grinnell experience is indelably tattooed on my soul, and...
- Ann LionAnn: My kids don't get it, my friends who aren't from here don't get it. They think it's odd. When I announced last week that I'm going to my 35th reunion, like, "Why would you do that?" It's like, why wouldn't I? This is a-- I've been lookin' forward to it.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: In fact, let me tell the honest truth here: I gave up a meeting with Obama yesterday to be here.Ellen: Yeah. That blew me away.Ann: That's how much I love--Ellen: I woulda met Obama myself. Personally, I would've.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: Her future son-in-law is.. has worked in the White House for five years, and he's leaving. And after you've been in the White House for a couple of years or whatever, if you have a good record, then Obama has like, a good-bye meeting with you, and she got to go! But didn't..Ann: Except I didn't. I came here because that's how important Grinnell is to me.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: So, anything else you wanna say?Ann: Hmm.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann Lion & Willa CollinsEllen: We were the era where women didn't shave their legs or their armpits.Ann: Hahah!Ellen: And that's what our school was known for. No--Willa: I know people who don't now, so..Ellen: Really?Ann: Really?Willa: Yeah.Ellen: Yeah.Ann: Hm, good.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: Well, and then--Ann: It's Grinnell.Ellen: But after our time, the 80's hit, and it was more like what they call the "Me Generation" and all these freshman were coming in all dressed in dresses and things, and.. Yeah, we took pride in being low maintenance women.Ann: Yeah. and anti-establishment women.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: I was just looking at these questions: my favorite spot on campus was South Lounge up in the top area. You remember that?Ellen: Yep, in the Forum. The Forum building.Ann: What did we call the little space up-- you know, we'd go through there--Ellen: Oh, they-- that building had so many little cubbies, and, you know, nooks and crannies that you could hang out in and... yeah.Ann: Mhm. Yeah, and so when they sh-- when they shifted over the Forum it was a.. it was a heartbreaker.Ellen: Yeah, it was.Ann: Yeah.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: I lived through Darby's loss, but the Forum... that little favorite nook was a place for peace.Ellen: Yeah, there's a question here about 'what buildings do you wish didn't change?'Ann: Oh, really?Ellen: I wish that one didn't change, yeah. Yeah.
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: So we had-- Anna and I had a Friday night coffee house, where we would do a bake sale, and then we would find a musician, some kid, somebody on campus, who would play that night fo tips. And so we did it like, every Friday, and we got it as a sanctioned program through the school so they would like, pay for our ingredients, and then we would...
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: And so... So, of course Ann, being in the public sector --I guess that's what you call it, right?-- wanted it all to be non-profit, and I, being more of a business person, wanted, of course, it should be for profit! And so we had this long-going argument that finally lead to a falling out after college, beca--
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: I went in the business world, and she went to the-- to save....Ann: Calling health--Ellen: Y'know, save everybody in the world. And I didn't see her for years and years, and then I started having dreams about her, and she was in my dreams like, night after night after night. And then I finally called her back, and we've been together ever since.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: But that coffee house was fun.Ann: Heheh, yeah, and I think I didn't understand what non-profit meant. I thought it meant that you couldn't make any money, not that you could pull out profits back in.Ellen: Right.Ann: Now that I live in the non-profit world, I realize how it really works.Ellen: Right, right.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: Right, but the whole idea for you to take a penny for this, all this work you put in--Ann: Of course not. No.Ellen: Yeah.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: And our dorm rooms: we-- I remember we had to make our dorm rooms ours, even though we weren't allowed to. Remember that?Ellen: Uh-huh.Ann: And I... I remember I snuck in a gallon of paint and painted the walls. You remember that?Ellen: Yeah! I do!Ann: That was Loose... Loose, second floor on Loose.Ellen: Uh-huh.Ann: Painted it all blue and then I got that beige paint at the end of the year and painted it back!
- Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: Ann also used to have an "Intensive Care" ward for plants, and everybody who had dead plants would bring her like, these sticks, you know? And she would keep it for three, four months or whatever, and hand back this lush plant. And she had an unbelievable touch! And she hangs up these boards, and all her intensive care unit was like-- [Laughter]
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: Oh! Do you remember though when the boards and-- with the bricks?Ann: I do, yeah. Of course, that was the year we did our bookshelves.Ellen: Right.Ann: Yeah.Ellen: Yeah.Ann: Yeah...
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: So I was lookin' at this question about clothing. I think we all wore hip-hugger bell-bottom jeans. You wore courds a lot.Ellen: Did I wear courds a lot?Ann: Yeah, you wore courds a lot. And we had Mexican shirts.Ellen: Right. You're ma-- we wore all the Mexican-imported shirts, yeah.Ann: Mexican-imported shirts. Yeah.Ellen: The white ones.Ann: Yeah.Ellen: Yeah.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: I don't really remember--Ann: And hoop earrings!Ellen: Right, big hoo-- yeah. And some things never change.Ann: I know.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: One of these reunions I came to, somebody said, "You changed your hair! You moved the part!" [Laughter]Ellen: Ahh...
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: Yep. I wish my brother was here this weekend..Ann: Sorry, Curt.Ellen: It would be fun to be with him.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann Lion & Willa CollinsEllen: Alright, anything else you wanna say?Ann: ....No. I think they captured it.Ellen: I'll bet this thing's gonna be really coll when it's done.Willa: Yeah, I-- I've heard a lot of cool stories already about what Grinnell used to be.Ellen: Uh-huh.
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionWilla: Hm. That about where you wanna leave it?Ellen: I guess, well, one last thing I wanna say is, I feel really lucky.Ann: Yeah.Ellen: To have gotten in here, and been able to go here --especially at the era that I was in. You know, we had only tenure professors, and we had one-on-one conversations, open doors all-- it wasn't just ho-- you know, office hours, you could see your professors anytime, and they actually wanted to hang out and talk to you about intellectual subjects.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: And, you know, it was none of this, you know, cattle prodding to get a huge number of students through in a short period of time. It was all about the personal attention and the richness of the indiviual's experience. And I think they really went out of their way to make sure that everybody got what they needed out of school.Ann: Yeah. No, I agree with her.
- Ann Lion & Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: I remember all those tutorials --I don't know if they still do tutorials...Willa: They do.Ann: They do?Willa: Mhm.Ann: --would be at their professors' homes.Ellen: Right.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsEllen: Do they still do a progressive dinner? In the spring where the professors all have like.... you go to a different professor's house for like, appetizers, and--Willa: No.Ellen: Oh.Willa: It sounds nice.Ellen: That was fun. That was really fun.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa Collins & Ann LionEllen: I think it was a fundraiser. I think you signed up for it, and..Willa: Oh.Ann: Yeah, we had to pay.Ellen: Yeah, you had to pay, but it was all a fundraiser.Ann: Yeah.Ellen: And... yeah. And students, for one night, went to one for appetizer and another for salad and main dish, and... It was fun.Ann: Mhm.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: I remember Saturday steak night. Remember it?Ellen: Oh! Heheheh, and little-- your little leather piece of steak everybody got on Saturday night.Ann: And I remember going... the-- North Campus had better steak 'cause of the athletes.Ellen: Oh, really?Ann: Yeah.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: So we figured that out after a while, and we'd go--Ellen: Grass is always greener. That's true that they're identical steaks!Ann: Jocks needed more protein than we did.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsEllen: Do you guys use the Main Dining Hall still in....? Is the Cowles Dining Hall still there?Willa: No, the Cowles Dining Hall isn't there. In Main we call it the Quad.Ellen: Yeah, we call it the Quad. Okay.Willa: Okay. We don't use it for just regular dining hall purposes, but there'll be events held in there officially.Ellen: Uh-huh.
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionWilla: Like, we had Spring Waltz in there.Ellen: Oh, that's great.Willa: Yeah. Winter Waltz is usually there.Ellen: Uh-huh.Ann: Yeah, see, those are things that've changed. We would have a toga party.Willa: Yeah.Ellen: Right, we wouldn't-- we wouldn't have a Waltz.
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinWilla: Well, there was a toga party in Loose first.Ellen: Oh, there was?Willa: A couple months ago, so..Ellen: And do you guys still do the Loose Hall Ball?Willa: I haven't heard of it.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsEllen: The Loose-- Okay, the Loose Hall Ball would be... what-- you had to come dressed as your most secret fantasy. And I came as a pregnant bride. [Laughter]Ellen: Which was, like, totally taboo, you know? To be a woman at Grinnell and say you were here to get married was like, not-- You know?Willa: Right.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: But, yeah, that was great. That was crazy, and it was in... in was in the Loose lounge.Ann: Yup. Yep.Ellen: That was every spring.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsAnn: I also remember kicking the... the screens out every spring.Ellen: And sittin' on the roof?Ann: Sittin' on the roof.Ellen: Do you guys do that?Willa: Oh, yeah.Ann: That's the best.Ellen: Yeah, yeah.Ann: In fact, we've done that a couple reunions and it feels really good.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsEllen: So I gotta tell you somethin' really stupid, two really stupid things.Willa: Yeah.Ellen: First of all, when I got here, I kept pulling my white card out to go touch the thing.Willa: Right.Ellen: And some kid said, "Now, you know, all you have to do is that." (Mimes waving bag in front of sensor.)Willa: Oh, yeah.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsEllen: And I thought--Willa: The sensors are strong enough that it's a really common sight to see people just waving their bags around in the general vicinty. [Laughter]Willa: I'm-- it's a disappointment if you have to actually reach in your bag to grab your wallet.Ellen: Really?Willa: Oh, yeah.Ellen: I didn't even know the technology existed.Willa: Oh, yeah.
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinWilla: And people, you know, if they have somewhere on their person, you'll see people who have their card in their shirt pocket, just making little, strange gestures at the sensors. [Laughter]Ellen: That's funny!Willa: Yeah.Ellen: That's really funny..
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsAnn: And then the other-- The second--Ellen: Oh, and the other thing was, I read in the thing that the Loggia was being replaced with... something you called the Forum, or forum, and it's supposed to have all these features in it.Willa: Right, right.Ellen: Okay. Well...
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: And she tells me:Ellen: I thought they're demolishing the Loggia--Ann: We were above there.Ellen: And they're gonna build some monstrosity that has all these kiosks in it. [Laughter]Ann: We were both really unhappy.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: And so, then we saw the sign that said, "Come see the new Loggia."Ann: "Oh, no!"Ellen: And there's a screen, and we said, "Well, let's see it! I wanna see what this thing looks like!" And the guy said, "Have you heard about it?" I said, "Yeah, I'm scared to death of it." And he's goin': "Well, just like here! It's right there!" and, "You just have to enter here." And it's like, "Wait a minute..." [Laughter]
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa Collins & Ann LionEllen: Yeah, so my references are antiquated.Willa: Well, I mean, no one's happy about the.. you know, East Campus Loggia, the way that they built those, but...Ellen: Really? Y'know.. they built that after we left--Willa: Right.Ellen: --and I've never been in those buildings or looked at those buildings.Willa: Well, you should go check it out.Ann: We ignore them.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa Collins & Ann LionEllen: Are they--Willa: Well, we ignore them too, but..Ellen: Are they nice?Willa: They're too nice.Ann: See?Ellen: Oh, they're-- they're so nice, they're not Grinnell.Ann: Yeah, see? That's what we were just talking about.Willa: Mhm.
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinEllen: Yep, yep!Willa: I live on South Campus.
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinWilla: But East Campus is very new and very shiny, and people are afraid to mess it up, or, you know, there's not really much that happend there.Ellen: Really?Willa: Yeah. It's very quiet and insular, but..
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa Collins & Ann LionEllen: So, is it the-- is it the least--Willa: And then the loggias are just useless, you know? They don't protect you from anything.Ellen: That Loggia?Ann: The East one.Willa: Yeah, there are snow drifts in the Loggia in the winter. [Laughter]Willa: Yeah, there's no point.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsEllen: Are there bathrooms in each room? Or is it still a hall bathroom?Willa: No. It's still a hall bathroom, so..Ellen: Oh.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa CollinsAnn: Oh, that's another thing, that is-- was from our era. Our co-- our era was new for being co-ed dorms.Ellen: Right.Willa: Oh, really? Co-ed everything?Ellen: And co-ed bathrooms.Ann: Yup.Ellen: We had co-ed bathrooms for the first time, and that wa--
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Willa Collins & Ann LionEllen: It was no big deal to me because I had brothers...Willa: Right.Ellen: But... we talked to a couple of people who have gotten-- Ron Cowen, who came and did his-- grew up with brothers, and he said the first time he saw a girl in the stall, it's like, he couldn't go to the bathroom for weeks!Ann: Yeah, he said he couldn't make a sound. [Laughter]
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: Yeah.Ann: But, going-- and when we would go back to our, you know, places of, you know, our homes and talk about our co-ed dorms, people were always flipped out.Ellen: Right, that's right. Yeah, 'cause that was weird.Ann: Yeah.
- Willa Collins & Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionWilla: Were your dorms fully co-ed? Like, each floor was--Ellen: Was mixed.Willa: Okay.Ann: Yeah, girl--
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann Lion & Willa CollinsEllen: And-- and, I think all the dorms were that-- There was one dorm that was men, Langan, and then one that was women, which is-- what's the one next to Langan on the other side of the tower?Ann: I think it was Read.Willa: Clark?Ellen: Clark? Okay. Clark, I think, was the girls' dorm. Other than that, every floor was mixed.Ann: Mhm.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann Lion & Willa CollinsEllen: So--Ann: And we didn't have any single-sex dorms on our campus, on South Campus.Ellen: Right, but Vasser didn't do single-sex floors, you know? It's like my-- my kids had: there's a boys' floor and then a girls' floor and a boys' floor and a girls' floor.Ann: Mhm.Ellen: And I've seen that, and they call that co-ed dorms, but we had co-ed life, you know?Ann: Hm.Willa: Right.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann Lion & Willa CollinsEllen: I mean, we lived like brothers and sisters.Ann: Mhm, mhm. Yeah, there was a very-- little romance on the floor.Willa: No.Ellen: Right.Ann: --Amongst our--Ellen: But we had great food fights. [Laughter]
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: And water fights!Ann: (Gasps)Ellen: We had a water fight one time!Ann: Let me-- this is a memory. This is a classic Grinnell memory.
- Ann Lion & Ellen Liebman GlatsteinAnn: You were part of it, where I was-- Lucy Rosendahl..Ellen: Yeah?Ann: --started it.Ellen: Yeah?Ann: You were part of it. You all-- we had one empty room. It was off in Cleveland, third floor-- and everybody had decided to trick me for a semester. And... Lucy invented this person called Bunny Rodriguez.Ellen: I remember Bunny Rodriguez!
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: She was never in her room!Ann: She was never in her room! And I would say, "I haven't-- I haven't met her yet." And, "Oh, she just left to the Library." You guys were all in cahoots the whole semester. And I--Ellen: I remember Bunny Rodriguez!
- Ann LionAnn: And they'd like, leave little notes on her wall, or on her door, and I lived exactly in front of her, so, you know.. I don't know why I was so gullible, but it took me the whole semester 'til you finally told me that you'd all made her up! [Laughter]
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann LionEllen: That was pretty funny.Ann: Thanks!Ellen: It was pretty funny! Ohh..Ann: I would believe everything you say.Ellen: Yep.
- Ellen Liebman Glatstein & Ann Lion & Willa CollinsEllen: Okay, are you done?Ann: Yeah, I guess.Ellen: Okay. I think I'm done, too.Willa: Alright.
Alumni oral history interview with Ellen Liebman Glatstein '79 and Ann Lion '78. Recorded June 1, 2013.